boo trance.... yay house!!!!

[MIA Chicago DNB]

clubs vs raves.. classic

early 90's the "club/loft/house" scene vs RIPE, DUBSHACK,HPS, SOURCE,ATP, CORE, ETC (these are oldschool crews.

1997-2003
zentra-crobar-etc vs vibeanauts, boogie tribe, njoy, pure..

and present. vision, zentra,crobar,soundbar, etc, well honestly most rave promoters also do or have done night at clubs so the line is pretty blured.

club heads are kinda clueless,they have no idea that the scene is built around djs, and that in our scene the djs are more than just playing songs, they are making your fav songs with a combo of two tunes. they dress up not ready to be in a barn or warehouse, get upset when the dj switches and its not house or trance.. but remember that a lot of people at the clubs used to go to raves and alot of them assume the scene is dead, i know that out of everyone we started to go to raves with in 1993 is not around or all about clubs.. or married with children.. what i have noticed that the kids today are still learning how to rave.. no one knows what time to show up, and what makes you a v.i.p., what to expect when you attend a rave.. it will take 2 years for the scene to bang again and then 3 months for some "raver" to screw it up with drugs party but know your limits please lets not repeat the past.

[the Sky]

Originally Posted by eyliusevil

Yes i have been to many "raves," I dont particularly like that word just because of all the negativity thats associated with it, and the fact that there needs to be an evolution and a new idea dropped on the scene.

Whats the point of there being a schism between the scene? Look at some of the lineups for club events, they are insane (example:Collabs on oct. 27th), if you think all music that is played at clubs is a whole nother world then perhaps you just need to familiarize yourself with the artists playing a bit more. I mean granted tehre is a difference between say Billy the kid and Delta 9, but shit both Dj's in there own way get people dancing, and expressing themselves to music. Which is essentially what both scenes are about (rather should be).

I think that most people who coin themselves as "ravers" (honestly whats the point of labeling yourself as something) have a problem with "clubbers" because, of the importance of looking good and being seen, etc. But how is that different from spending hours making kandi bracellets, and deciding what color of phat pants your going to wear? If you look at it from a wide perspective its a stress on looking a certain way, etc. Honestly I wish we all could unite and put aside our differences and just dance, and not have these 2 seperate scenes.

Thats my $0.02 take it or leave it, our scene isn't strong and schisms aren't going to fix it.

I'll break it down so it is simple, because obviously you need it.

When was the last time you were hugged by a stranger at a club, or had an in depth conversation with someone you've never met before? I'm sure it happens, a lot-but the environment of unity felt at a rave is completely separate from a club. I am not downtalking a "clubber"(never seen that before) or a "raver", but to ask why they are different is pretty ignorant.

Maybe you just didn't get into it like other people do. My friend went to a rave with me, and he complained about all the people asking him stupid questions-I found the people to be very friendly, and great people to have time with while he said they disgusted him. Try to look at it in an unbiased perspective. I'm not trying to talk up raving, but for god sake it is as different as the difference between a trance rave and a DnB rave!

[eyliusevil]

Maybe I didn't get into it like other people did? Lol, you need to come talk to me face to face and realize how into this scene i am, haha. Only reason why I DONT want a schism is so that the scene is STRONG. Recently i have noticed that there have been some "club heads" attending partys, and I always make it a point of asking them what they think of it and their feelings on whats going on, and their answer is always the same, they like it but its different to them (but not in a bad way). Maybe I'm looking at this from a different perspective from everone else, however we should be one nation under a groove that just gets down for the funk of it....

And to your comment about having in depth conversations with people at clubs and getting randomly hugged or whatever by people at clubs, I think I've been clubbing a total of 2 times? Not sure, however I have had in depth conversations with people that i didn't know at a club, and i did meet some cool people.

If anyone one wants to debate this more please feel free to hit me up on aim EyliusEvilHatesU .

[Raverkid00]

Originally Posted by eyliusevil

Maybe I didn't get into it like other people did? Lol, you need to come talk to me face to face and realize how into this scene i am, haha. Only reason why I DONT want a schism is so that the scene is STRONG. Recently i have noticed that there have been some "club heads" attending partys, and I always make it a point of asking them what they think of it and their feelings on whats going on, and their answer is always the same, they like it but its different to them (but not in a bad way). Maybe I'm looking at this from a different perspective from everone else, however we should be one nation under a groove that just gets down for the funk of it....

And to your comment about having in depth conversations with people at clubs and getting randomly hugged or whatever by people at clubs, I think I've been clubbing a total of 2 times? Not sure, however I have had in depth conversations with people that i didn't know at a club, and i did meet some cool people.

If anyone one wants to debate this more please feel free to hit me up on aim EyliusEvilHatesU .

O come one dude. There are MAJOR differences between the "club" scene and the "rave" scene. Lets list em:

Clubs: ALCOHOL, trendy people, dress codes, ALCOHOL, drunken aggressions, violence, primary focus finding someone to sleep with, age restrictions, ALCOHOL, ABC agents, coke, meth, dip cigarettes, other bad drugs, Club hours (party ends 2 - 4 am). The venues are designed for a typical night-out-on-the-town crowd (not ravers) so the bar owner can make money selling drinks; and are very rule oriented and restrictive. The music is provided as a background to get people in to buy the ALCOHOL. Even when so-called rave promoters use these venues to highlight DJ's like Van Dyk, Oakenfeld, etc... its all about making money and letting the nightclub owner get his slice sellin alcohol. HOUSE music fits right in to this scene.

Raves: people of all ages, no dress codes, focus is on dancing, free expression and meeting people, the venue is designed specifically for the party itself, concessions, lights, loops, and the music is there to bring the crowd together in a unified way; drug of choice REAL PURE MDMA (hard to find so prolly why many rave scenes die out), NO ALCOHOL, no aggressions (except at hardcore parties or rooms most other ravers tend to avoid), and the party lasts until no one is left to dance or its midday, whichever comes first. All other forms of techno fit into this scene, even having seperate rooms for main scene and splinter groups to enjoy their favorites in. Promoters make their money giving people an alternative to the club scene.

CLUBS are NOT RAVES no matter what unscrupulous promoters want people to believe.

[Fractured]

you guys are dead wrong

there is only ONE major difference between clubs and raves nowadays (and im not talking about clubs like energy thursday, cause thats not a club...thats a fuckin nursery for rich kids 16-20)

clubs BRING TALENT that raves can hope to posses. simple as that.

[oddball]

not trying to be a dick but....

reasons clubs are better than raves

1. clubs don't get shut down at 1am... they go till the end.
2. the dj's that are scheduled to play, are actually scheduled to play and show up.
3. you don't have to deal with some 14 year old kid who took too much E and wants to give you a hug/sea breeze/lightshow

your arguments for club and raves being different are just your opinions... because i have seen all your points about club goers that ravers have done and still do on a regular basis.

1. ravers go out to get fucked up too
2. ravers go out to find a piece of ass
3. raves can be very rule oriented and restricted... they are not always a free-for-all
4. venue owners want to make their slice just like club owners
5. ravers can be some small minded people and very trendy too. if you are not wearing fat pants or kande up to your elbows they will look at you funny.
6. to say there is no fights or stupid drama at raves is totally wrong.


i'm a promoter and dj in the both the club and rave scene, so trust me... i have seen it all. clubs and raves are just glorified parties. they are what you make of them. there are gonna be cool people there and there are gonna be the scum-bags that fuck it up for everyone else. too say that all clubers are fake people here in chicago is wrong because after all the rave laws passed, all the over 21 crowd HAD to go to the clubs to hear good music and the under 21 crowd had to struggle to find a lofty or god forbid go to energy thursdays. i have met some of my best friends and met some of the most amazing people in the club scene here in chicago. people in the city don't realize how SPOILED musically we are here in chicago. any night of the week you can go out to a different quality club event and hear any kind of music you want. be it EDM, rock, blues, or hip hop.

[Raverkid00]

Typical... the previous two responses are from promoters who want people to think they are providing a real service using nightclubs.

I have been going to raves around the country for nearly 20 years. I've also promoted several undergrounds myself during that time. I've gone to clubs before, during and presently.

The ONLY thing clubs have in common with raves is giving SOME people (as indicated by the aforementioned promoters) SOME access to SOME of the music.

As for the constant comments about illegality pushing the raves into the club scene.... raves were NEVER legal. That's why they were originally called underground parties. The ones that seemed legal were actually parties where promoters pretended the party was something else, like a record release party, or a movie release party, or some charity function. They got permits and coverage on that basis, but if the cops wanted to they could still break them up.

So what if theres a rave law in chicago or (illinois)? Undergrounds are still possible, but promoters being BUSINESSMEN prefer to claim the mantle of "Raves" when all they are doing is using nightclubs for fast and easy profits.

Don't get me wrong... old skool promoters were into the money too... but it seems to me from my personal knowledge of several that they also got off creating and developing the scene itself, music promotion, dance and everything. I don't see the same thing in todays promoters. That IS an opinion, altho I think has some factual basis.

[Elekid]

Originally Posted by oddball

1. ravers go out to get fucked up too
2. ravers go out to find a piece of ass
3. raves can be very rule oriented and restricted... they are not always a free-for-all
4. venue owners want to make their slice just like club owners
5. ravers can be some small minded people and very trendy too. if you are not wearing fat pants or kande up to your elbows they will look at you funny.
6. to say there is no fights or stupid drama at raves is totally wrong.

I really don't feel like jumping into this debate, but couldn't numbers 1, 2 (especially), 5 (the trendy part), and 6 apply to clubs too?

[oddball]

Originally Posted by Elekid

I really don't feel like jumping into this debate, but couldn't numbers 1, 2 (especially), 5 (the trendy part), and 6 apply to clubs too?

yeah... that's my point. all of his previous points could be used in either the "club side" or the "rave side" there is really no difference in the club and rave scene. there are cool, down-to-earth people and shady ass people too. this goes for the kids in each scene, as well as the promoters and venue owners.

club events and raves are just different names for one thing... A PARTY. go out and have a good time and quit trying to be an elitest. "i ONLY go to clubs cause ravers suck, or vice versa. variety is the spice of life. fuck man, i can have a good time with a thousand people listening to any form of music... EDM, classical, country, rock, i don't give a shit or i could have a blast by myself in a dark room listening to a garbage truck running for 8 hours. to say one form of music is better than another is ignorant. one man's trash is another man's treasure

[Raverkid00]

Originally Posted by oddball

yeah... that's my point. all of his previous points could be used in either the "club side" or the "rave side" there is really no difference in the club and rave scene. there are cool, down-to-earth people and shady ass people too. this goes for the kids in each scene, as well as the promoters and venue owners.

club events and raves are just different names for one thing... A PARTY. go out and have a good time and quit trying to be an elitest. "i ONLY go to clubs cause ravers suck, or vice versa.... to say one form of music is better than another is ignorant. one man's trash is another man's treasure

Geez you sure missed the point, which had nothing to do with one music being better than another. My original response to someone asking where to find house music was "duh, go to a club." While raves do have house music, that form of techno was in the club dance scene years before raves got started in the USA.

A club is a LEGAL liquor permit holder location, the primiary purpose of which is to SELL ALCOHOL, a legal drug, to people legally old enough to drink it. If you are patently unable to understand the difference between drunk people and their actions/attitudes in a typical club scene and ravers who go to an underground party.. then essentially you don't know what you are arguing about. The same holds true if you cannot understand the overall differences between club venues and real rave venues.

My argument has nothing to do with elitism. It has everything to do with reviving and re-establishing a wonderful, and IMO freer party atmosphere lacking those stereotypical, socially acceptable club rules and restrictions.

[oddball]

dude... all the raves here are now selling booze or are byob. and i'm actually glad people are not getting all fucked up on drugs. the purpose of a venue is not just to sell alcohol but to make money in general. granted almost all the revenue is from bar sales. the people that attend clubs are generally more responsible and know how to handle themselves as opposed to some kid lying in a cuddle puddle. that's half the reason people go to 21+ events... they are sick of seeing kids getting all messed up on drugs.

and there is not much of a difference between the crowds. they both have their stereotypes. but they are just that... stereotypes. i know a lot of stuck-up clubbers and a lot of stuck up ravers. there is plenty of trance, dnb, house, and techno being played in every club in chicago 7 nights a week as well as raves and various undergrounds on the weekend. plenty of stuff for people to do without bagging on other people's tastes.

like i said before, i not trying to be a dick. just putting in my 2 cents in this debate.

Originally Posted by Raverkid00

I am gettin grouchy about it cuz today so many kids are into the harder sounds and they bring a more aggressive and violent vibe to parties these days that never shoulda been allowed to develop in the rave scene.

sounds like you were bashing other people's music to me.

[Raverkid00]

Originally Posted by oddball

dude... (1) all the raves here are now selling booze or are byob....(2)they are sick of seeing kids getting all messed up on drugs.

and there is not much of a difference between the crowds. they both have their stereotypes. but they are just that... stereotypes. i know a lot of stuck-up clubbers and a lot of stuck up ravers. there is plenty of trance, dnb, house, and techno being played in every club in chicago 7 nights a week as well as raves and various undergrounds on the weekend. plenty of stuff for people to do without bagging on other people's tastes.

like i said before, i not trying to be a dick. just putting in my 2 cents in this debate.

Well finally a couple of points you are right about. Point (1) Raves should NEVER have alcohol. Alcohol acts as a depressant, reducing inhibitions. Unfortunately it reduces all forms of emotional control and inhibitions while screwing with your communication skills and motor coordination. Drunks do whatever and dont care....unlike MDMA which you should know makes you emotinally happy and openly freindly but never violent and always still basically in control. (Pure MDMA isnt around anymore so dont give me any crap about how todays "XTC" is bad medicine, I already know its bad crap and bunk.)

Point (2) relates to something I said in point (1) Kids ARE gettin messed up on drugs.. cuz they havent got a clue what xtc really is and so they buy whatever some guy is sellin, always lookin for the "holy grail" of mdma we oldies talk about. When I promoted, and the guyz who promoted in other crews I knew about, we made sure one of our big responsibilities was keeping bad vibe crap out of the parties and only lettin in the "approved" (certified 100% clean) vendors in the party. That helped make sure there was less chance of anything negative happening. The point was to make the party fun, safe, and a memorable good time for all.

If you notice, thats why I ask elsewhere..."where the hell are the REAL raves?" a lot of the undergrounds are doing exactly what you say... selling alcohol, allowing bad drugs to get to good kids, and advertising DJ's who they never booked in the first place.

Anyway, just playing music at a club doesnt make it a rave.... it just makes it a trendier club, thats all I am saying. BTW I am not mad, or offended bro.... debate is what makes this country free. lol

Party on