Same Sex Marriage now Legal In CA For now. - Page 7

Conniption · #73 17.5.2008, 6:25 am

Ok lets dive into this a little... I am "kinda" in the middle in the sense that I agree with most of the people in the general stuff but disagree with the fine points.

Lets get to the fine points....

The word "Marriage"... To me the term is a Christian based term and I have absolutely no desire to take that away from them. We need to give that up, forget it, not going to happen. It's a stupid, meaningless word that has no bearing to the ceremonial bond between two people. In fact, we ought to just simply change the term for ALL legal unions, straight or gay. Level the playing field, lets start fresh, and let the religious people have their delusion that somehow a "marriage" is different. If you are homosexual and Christian that is a WHOLE separate fight but we ARE talking about government here.

THAT BEING SAID......

The fact that homosexuals are not allowed the same protections and rights as heterosexuals is appalling and, frankly, unconstitutional. I consider it the most important civil rights hurdle of our generation, maybe even in U.S. history since the abolition of slavery (the second being the right for women to vote, the third desegregation).

And NO...This will NOT lead to people getting hitched to animals or lamps (not any more then heterosexual unions anyways), that is just ridiculous. Nor would I, or any other person of logic, support any legislation for that. And NO...this does not mean we would then have to allow things like polygamy...again ridiculous.

*Side note* Does anyone find it ironic that it is "conservatives" that are generally pushing the bans? I thought the idea of a "conservative" is to have LESS governmental say in peoples affairs. Not my particular belief but I felt it necessary to point out the hypocrisy.

Spark_Addiction · #74 17.5.2008, 11:52 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klover

Also....you mention about how who are we to say that our belief or how we think law is above the word of god? that we can not question something so far above us....

but what if we don't believe in god?

you have to remember....god is a belief.....not a provable existent thing so you can not really use the argument that we can't go against gods word.

"by what right do ordinary mortals have the audacity to challenge the word of God(s) and Goddess(es)? Pick whatever religion you want, do they even acknowledge mortal laws or customs? Christianity is the easiest for most of us to relate to... does the Bible state: "Thou shalt not commit Murder, unless in a Government (or Church) sanctioned war." It truly is a higher power that you're answerable to, if you truly believe in the religion that you say you do. Loopholes and excuses won't stand for much when a soul is on trial."

I'm sorry...but i am jewish. grew up very religious. so did my parents and my family friends. I consider myself conservative, which is very much in the middle right now, deciding which way to go. it is separating the denomination.

but right now? the vast majority of Judaism below orthodoxy agrees that gay marriage should be allowed, and many temples hold ceromonies.

it is because no where, in all of the original bible, did god(yes, the one Christianity is based upon) say that marriage is something only between a man and a woman.

Exactly! Each of us can (and should) pick the religion and God(s) that suit us best, whether that be Christian, Judaism, Buddism, Paganism, Atheism, etc. I'm personally agnostic: I don't know WHAT is out there past our senses, though I do think that there is something.

It's the people that create man-made laws to try to control the spiritual laws that the religions have set down that get me. I'm not saying that any one religion should be higher than the laws of man, I'm saying that ALL of them should be... in matters OF religion. If whatever beliefs a person follows says that it IS or IS NOT ok for same sex marriage, then it shouldn't matter what anything else tells you.

California's court's decision to make the state butt out of things that don't concern them makes me all kinds of happy.

Astral_JL · #75 17.5.2008, 12:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conniption

Ok lets dive into this a little... I am "kinda" in the middle in the sense that I agree with most of the people in the general stuff but disagree with the fine points.

Lets get to the fine points....

The word "Marriage"... To me the term is a Christian based term and I have absolutely no desire to take that away from them. We need to give that up, forget it, not going to happen. It's a stupid, meaningless word that has no bearing to the ceremonial bond between two people. In fact, we ought to just simply change the term for ALL legal unions, straight or gay. Level the playing field, lets start fresh, and let the religious people have their delusion that somehow a "marriage" is different. If you are homosexual and Christian that is a WHOLE separate fight but we ARE talking about government here.

Marriages have been taking place long before christianity was apparent. Christians think they own the word marriage. 'Holy matrimony' is different.

Intellect · #76 17.5.2008, 12:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astral_JL

Christians think they own the word marriage.

Christians think they own a lot more than that, heh.

Klover · #77 17.5.2008, 6:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astral_JL

Marriages have been taking place long before Christianity was apparent. Christians think they own the word marriage. 'Holy matrimony' is different.

yup.

True dat.

I sometimes wish my mom could log onto RL and post on these topics.
she is such a great person for the discussions that take place.

And shes a Phd/author/researcher/professor in Judaic studies, Comparative religion, medieval religion, birth of Christianity, mysticism and kaballah, and Zionism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conniption

I have absolutely no desire to take that away from them. We need to give that up, forget it, not going to happen. It's a stupid, meaningless word that has no bearing to the ceremonial bond between two people. In fact, we ought to just simply change the term for ALL legal unions, straight or gay. Level the playing field, lets start fresh, and let the religious people have their delusion that somehow a "marriage" is different. If you are homosexual and Christian that is a WHOLE separate fight but we ARE talking about government here.

I agree except that there was marriage before Christianity...and it would be hard to get 300,000,000 people to stop using that word.

can anyone think of a term NOT civil unions or marriage that still sounds good...but not too cheesy?

and not like 'bonding ceremony' or stuff like that...i'm interested in one word ones....

Conniption · #78 17.5.2008, 8:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astral_JL

Marriages have been taking place long before christianity was apparent. Christians think they own the word marriage. 'Holy matrimony' is different.

Of course...it would be silly of me to debate that. Of course, though I am talking about the the literal word in it's modern context. Unfortunately, at least in America, Christians DO own the word. In our culture "marriage" is synonymous with "holy matrimony."

I agree with Klover I am not that crazy about the term "civil union" it sounds too much like some kind of contractual obligation rather then the celebration of the honored love between two people.

We should try to think of one here! Something that can be for everybody: gay, straight, religious, or secular.