6 Years Later

[moogle]

Originally Posted by Spunkt

Over all feel? If you are saying over all feel this is subjective and not an argument. How about my over all feel that Americans are rude ignorance assholes? How about my feel that Americans give a shit less about anyone, including the troops but then put a yellow ribbon on their gas guzzling SUVs? Over all feel isn't an argument. I lived on a U.S. Army base over in Qatar. I went to Amsterdam and England. I now live in America. This place is full of assholes who give a shit less about other human beings. This is my overall feel, even in college I have ignorant assholes who say "Reading is stupid."

Statistics, Moogle, Statistics. If an overwhelming majority of people are going to stay poor, then your token cases are just flukes. How about the assholes who stay rich by doing nothing such as Sport Stars and Actors? Lets talk about the assholes after the civil war. How the exploited workers... Don't bring up any of those cases because they were evil men who fucked over the people who worked for them.

Rappers? Are you serious? Most of the mainstream, wealthy rappers are produced by white men in suits looking to fill a niche in the pop charts. They didn't work hard, they just have catchy tunes and were lucky.

Once again, these are token, and rare cases. When the overwhelming majority of people stay poor that has to make you think. Since you wanted to make this disussion personal by asking about me, I will also. Why are you stuck in the mindset that a person can do anything in america like this is some land of milk and honey? "Chained to the dream you are searching for."-RATM. Your mind set is stuck in how the history books teach history, The Great Man Theory and the Great March Theory. Go read "A People's History of the UNited States of America" by Howard Zinn and then read "Lies my Teacher Told Me" Open your eyes, you are looking at history in the Old Historicism way.

I need you to give me more than just "Over all feel" because that has nothing to do with how America runs itself. Facts are good. Because I can bring up a lot of different people who have had a bad time in America.

And onto who had power. Women still had less rights than Black men did. What powers did they have? I gave you proof backing my claim, where is yours?

If I had said I, than yeah, its subjective, but I said an overall feel (I should put more to it) of everything, exception of the bad government and people because those are the problems I seem to perceive from your post. I careless about the faggots or punks that are assholes, I careless, you see how I am, I love meeting people and finding peepz that are cool. An overall system is what I meant, like the land, the beauty, the opportunity that it has, if one can’t find the opportunity to achieve in America, than he or she are blind or lazy, serious – one just have to keep pushing until he or she reaches their goals. You think I am going to stay poor all my life, I think America will push me to area’s of educations that will lead me to an awesome job. I had my AS degree when I was 19, and I made thousands of dollars, more than some, and did many things that no other 19 year old do, with my own money that I earned. I wont mention how much money I have made, but I don’t think it would be possible for me to do the things that I have done or have attained, from other countries, I know because I have a big family that pursue education until doctorates, most have Masters and even with that, they have it hard to get rich, but if they live in America - milliionaires. And one more thing, there are asshole’s and people who are just cruel to man kind, EVERYWHERE!!! If you think its just America, wow.

This is where I believe that survival of the fittest comes in. That is part of life, there will always be people who will be better or try to keep the masses work as slaves, that is part of life in every animal, for ex: lions – they are called “king of the jungle” because they are powerful, now they are not the best in everything, but as an overall being, a lion is king of the jungle, like America.

Mmm, are you reading any of the statements I said… I said one can do anything to become rich in America, even rapping, and that’s the beauty of America. It’s the land of opportunity that many things one can do and become a millionaire, rapping are one of them. And there are some cases where there are rappers who themselves are entrepreneurs or they owned rap companies, like Death Row Records – Shug Knight, a black entrepreneur, owns it and makes millions. Or Puff Daddy - Bad Boy Records. The only white person around those two constantly, are lawyers

When did I make it personal, I asked have you ever lived anywhere outside of this country. Spunkt, you know I did not attack your mindset, but you attack mine… I am not stuck in a mindset, you are actually, you have been ignorant and did not even look @ the points that I have given and worked around the points I have input, but going on to your point, I have proven it by saying that my parents came here broke as a joke – my mom now makes a lot of money, if that is not proof that one can achieve higher and become rich in America, I don’t know what is - its all in one heart’s desire and how badly they want it. and more: Oprah, Michael Jordan, Bill Gates, and Andrew Carnegie to mention some.

I careless about the people that have a bad time in America, as that is their problem, not mine. I love this country with all the things that it holds, even its government, why, because of many things that makes this country great. If you want to go in great details, sure, I love the land, the free ways, there are all kinds of people from all over the world, and I don’t have to travel to experience different culture, and so much more. I can write a book on why America is great. Look, I know America does some shady shit, but like you said about history, empires will try to do what ever it can to maintain on top - going to wars, killing, and wiping other nations, is what we, as human kind do since the beginning of time.

Women still had less rights, true, but you went around with what I said, I said “white women” had more rights, freedom, and power than any colored men, if you don’t think that is true, well, your pretty naïve. White women were so powerful compare to the colored men, that they can lie and say rape and point to a black men, and that men will be dead in a heart beat.

I have my U.S history book and it has many valuable information of America and why I think its the greatest, and I will back up my claims and bring it to your pad and continue on the arguments, because I love a good debate and many peepz can't take our on going discussion.

[ecto]

american education system = the suck.

[Spunkt]

Originally Posted by moogle

If I had said I, than yeah, its subjective, but I said an overall feel (I should put more to it) of everything, exception of the bad government and people because those are the problems I seem to perceive from your post. I careless about the faggots or punks that are assholes, I careless, you see how I am, I love meeting people and finding peepz that are cool. An overall system is what I meant, like the land, the beauty, the opportunity that it has, if one can’t find the opportunity to achieve in America, than he or she are blind or lazy, serious – one just have to keep pushing until he or she reaches their goals. You think I am going to stay poor all my life, I think America will push me to area’s of educations that will lead me to an awesome job. I had my AS degree when I was 19, and I made thousands of dollars, more than some, and did many things that no other 19 year old do, with my own money that I earned. I wont mention how much money I have made, but I don’t think it would be possible for me to do the things that I have done or have attained, from other countries, I know because I have a big family that pursue education until doctorates, most have Masters and even with that, they have it hard to get rich, but if they live in America - milliionaires. And one more thing, there are asshole’s and people who are just cruel to man kind, EVERYWHERE!!! If you think its just America, wow.

This is where I believe that survival of the fittest comes in. That is part of life, there will always be people who will be better or try to keep the masses work as slaves, that is part of life in every animal, for ex: lions – they are called “king of the jungle” because they are powerful, now they are not the best in everything, but as an overall being, a lion is king of the jungle, like America.

Mmm, are you reading any of the statements I said… I said one can do anything to become rich in America, even rapping, and that’s the beauty of America. It’s the land of opportunity that many things one can do and become a millionaire, rapping are one of them. And there are some cases where there are rappers who themselves are entrepreneurs or they owned rap companies, like Death Row Records – Shug Knight, a black entrepreneur, owns it and makes millions. Or Puff Daddy - Bad Boy Records. The only white person around those two constantly, are lawyers

When did I make it personal, I asked have you ever lived anywhere outside of this country. Spunkt, you know I did not attack your mindset, but you attack mine… I am not stuck in a mindset, you are actually, you have been ignorant and did not even look @ the points that I have given and worked around the points I have input, but going on to your point, I have proven it by saying that my parents came here broke as a joke – my mom now makes a lot of money, if that is not proof that one can achieve higher and become rich in America, I don’t know what is - its all in one heart’s desire and how badly they want it. and more: Oprah, Michael Jordan, Bill Gates, and Andrew Carnegie to mention some.

I careless about the people that have a bad time in America, as if that is their problem, not mine. I love this country with all the things that it holds, even its government, why, because of many things that makes this country great. If you want to go in great details, sure, I love the land, the free ways, there are all kinds of people from all over the world, and I don’t have to travel to experience different culture, and so much more. I can write a book on why America is great. Look, I know America does some shady shit, but like you said about history, empires will try to do what ever it can to maintain on top - going to wars, killing, and wiping other nations, is what we, as human kind do since the beginning of time.

Women still had less rights, true, but you went around with what I said, I said “white women” had more rights, freedom, and power than any colored men, if you don’t think that is true, well, your pretty naïve. White women were so powerful compare to the colored men, that they can lie and say rape and point to a black men, and that men will be dead in a heart beat.

I have my U.S history book and it has many valuable information of America and why I think its the greatest, and I will back up my claims and bring it to your pad and continue on the arguments, because I love a good debate and many peepz can't take our on going discussion.

Let me get this straight, your points are:
1.America is awesome because anyone can become rich. You use your parents as an example

2. The people that don't become rich are lazy. or assholes. Or better yet, faggots.

3. You can't become as rich as quickly in other countries. Other countries have assholes.

4. Survival of the fittest. Which means to you, people who are rich deserve to be rich.

5. If one person makes it rich, that means that all the statics in the world, along with facts, are wrong.

6. If people don't think america is number one awesome, fuck them.

7.It is okay that America kills children, over throws sovereign nations and assassinates people(including their own people) in their best interest, because they are on top.

8. Why america is so great is because it makes you feel awesome...

Did I sum up your arguments?

[ecto]

fuck the united states i'm moving to petoria

[Juno]

Most of you people have too much of a partisan temper to look at issues rationally.

[moogle]

Originally Posted by Spunkt

Let me get this straight, your points are:

1.America is awesome because anyone can become rich. You use your parents as an example

2. The people that don't become rich are lazy. or assholes. Or better yet, faggots.

3. You can't become as rich as quickly in other countries. Other countries have assholes.

4. Survival of the fittest. Which means to you, people who are rich deserve to be rich.

5. If one person makes it rich, that means that all the statics in the world, along with facts, are wrong.

6. If people don't think america is number one awesome, fuck them.

7.It is okay that America kills children, over throws sovereign nations and assassinates people(including their own people) in their best interest, because they are on top.

8. Why america is so great is because it makes you feel awesome...

Did I sum up your arguments?

Now your putting words into my mouth.

1. America is awesome because of the many opportunities that it gives. I used my parents as example and many more, or did you not read.

2. People can be content with where they are, I am just saying that one can become rich. I did not say people don’t become rich are lazy, or ass holes, or better yet faggots, are you reading any of this, or just
looking @ a few words…

3. No, anyone can become rich all over the world, but in America, there are many opportunities in this country, than the rest.

4. Again, survival of the fittest mean, that people who have greater knowledge, strength, or anything that gives them a better position will become on top, not rich, and that is if he or she wants to be that. Well that is my belief of Survival of the Fittest.

5. One can be rich in any country, but where else can you find where you can do anything your hearts desire, that is legal, and still possibly become a millionaire with what one loves to do, like rapping.

6. America is America, I think its #1 because of many reasons I can tell you in person, this is going out of hand.

7. uh, no, killing is never ok, but I was saying that America will do that because we as human kind, have been doing that since who knows when.
8. America is great! Yeah, it does make me feel awesome and superb, sorry America does not treat you the same.

9. No, you summed up what you think are my arguments, and way out of proportion to the things I said. I should have use the words bad people than punk, or assholes, or faggots. “roll eyes”

[ecto]

national socialist german workers party > your party

[Spunkt]

Originally Posted by moogle

Now your putting words into my mouth.

1. America is awesome because of the many opportunities that it gives. I used my parents as example and many more, or did you not read.

2. People can be content with where they are, I am just saying that one can become rich. I did not say people don’t become rich are lazy, or ass holes, or better yet faggots, are you reading any of this, or just
looking @ a few words…

3. No, anyone can become rich all over the world, but in America, there are many opportunities in this country, than the rest.

4. Again, survival of the fittest mean, that people who have greater knowledge, strength, or anything that gives them a better position will become on top, not rich, and that is if he or she wants to be that. Well that is my belief of Survival of the Fittest.

5. One can be rich in any country, but where else can you find where you can do anything your hearts desire, that is legal, and still possibly become a millionaire with what one loves to do, like rapping.

6. America is America, I think its #1 because of many reasons I can tell you in person, this is going out of hand.

7. uh, no, killing is never ok, but I was saying that America will do that because we as human kind, have been doing that since who knows when.
8. America is great! Yeah, it does make me feel awesome and superb, sorry America does not treat you the same.

9. No, you summed up what you think are my arguments, and way out of proportion to the things I said. I should have use the words bad people than punk, or assholes, or faggots. “roll eyes”

I think you completely missed my points.

I use facts and statistic, you use case studies( your mom and your dad.) I am saying that most people in America will not become rich because that is how our system works. In capitalism people have to stay poor for other people to be rich. You are saying that this is okay, where I say that it is not okay.

Hmmm...

I don't think I will ever be able to reach you, so once again I will leave you a list of books you might want to check out:
"The Peoples History of the U.S.A" by Howard Zinn
"Lies My Teacher Told Me"
Anything Noam Chomsky has written. "Failed States" is a good one.
And this movie should be good for you to watch "The Corporation"

Onto the "faggots" thing. I was hoping you would catch this. This is one of the things that I hate about america, its rampant homophobia. Where a word like faggot is used to describe people who have nothing to do with homosexuality and no one really seems to notice.

I don't think you see my points, again. So I am done.

[moogle]

Originally Posted by Spunkt

I think you completely missed my points.

I use facts and statistic, you use case studies( your mom and your dad.) I am saying that most people in America will not become rich because that is how our system works. In capitalism people have to stay poor for other people to be rich. You are saying that this is okay, where I say that it is not okay.

Hmmm...

I don't think I will ever be able to reach you, so once again I will leave you a list of books you might want to check out:
"The Peoples History of the U.S.A" by Howard Zinn
"Lies My Teacher Told Me"
Anything Noam Chomsky has written. "Failed States" is a good one.
And this movie should be good for you to watch "The Corporation"

Onto the "faggots" thing. I was hoping you would catch this. This is one of the things that I hate about america, its rampant homophobia. Where a word like faggot is used to describe people who have nothing to do with homosexuality and no one really seems to notice.


I don't think you see my points, again. So I am done.

your putting words into my mouth again. I never said that Capitalism is ok, I said America has an overall best system. Reading skills lacking, maybe. As your not getting my point either.

I used my dad and many more people like: Oprah, Michael Jordan, Andrew carnegie. Bro your not getting it, I am saying that it is possible in this country, sure there are stats that says other wise, but its possible in this country to be where you want to be, if you have the hearts desire, but your not getting that and giving me #'s that does not pertain to my main point, that America in a overall system, as in everything if you were to add the statistics of what is what, and how life is, how old one gets, how much money they can attain and so on, AMERICA IS THE PLACE!


I don't think you see my point, nor will I ever able to reach you the beauty of this country. so I am done also.

O yeah, sorry for using the word "Faggot" if I offend anyone, I take it back.

Everyone you can smile now. Thread is finally coming to a close, i hope.

[BobbyB_III]

So much talk, I barely read half.

Fact is we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq to secure our nations future. We need the Oil for atleast another 50 years until technology will start to replace render oil obsolete.

It is necessary for US security to have Strongholds on both sides of an unstable (NUCLEAR)Iran, and below an resurgent Russia.

The results of letting Bush be a loose cannon is that N.Korea and Libya are a lot more serious about Nuclear proliferations. Plus his buddies in S.Arabia Royal Family are making a killing by jacking up oil prices because of the instability of the region, not to mention protection from Saddam.

These are key issues that are seen when you step back and look at the big picture.

[Juno]

Originally Posted by BobbyB_III

So much talk, I barely read half.

Fact is we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq to secure our nations future. We need the Oil for atleast another 50 years until technology will start to replace render oil obsolete.

It is necessary for US security to have Strongholds on both sides of an unstable (NUCLEAR)Iran, and below an resurgent Russia.

The results of letting Bush be a loose cannon is that N.Korea and Libya are a lot more serious about Nuclear proliferations. Plus his buddies in S.Arabia Royal Family are making a killing by jacking up oil prices because of the instability of the region, not to mention protection from Saddam.

These are key issues that are seen when you step back and look at the big picture.

Word, brotha'.

[moogle]

Originally Posted by BobbyB_III

So much talk, I barely read half.

Fact is we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq to secure our nations future. We need the Oil for atleast another 50 years until technology will start to replace render oil obsolete.

It is necessary for US security to have Strongholds on both sides of an unstable (NUCLEAR)Iran, and below an resurgent Russia.

The results of letting Bush be a loose cannon is that N.Korea and Libya are a lot more serious about Nuclear proliferations. Plus his buddies in S.Arabia Royal Family are making a killing by jacking up oil prices because of the instability of the region, not to mention protection from Saddam.

These are key issues that are seen when you step back and look at the big picture.

word up my brotha.