I found the meaning of life at Popsikle

[crossfaded]

orvski,
Thank you for that post. It actually tells me that I am reaching somebody, and I am not talking crazy. I think part of me have always want to help people, and that part of me it trying to put down what I am experiencing as fully as possible. And it's really up to you to decide whether this makes sense to you and whether you want to take my advice to find your own meaning of life.

I'm trying to document all this on crossfaded.org. The first on top being my frist post, and it will stay there, as I will continue to add my experience. I can't believe it's been almost 24 hours now since I went on this journey. In the beginning I just wanted to expand my mind, but the results has been more than I could've ever imagined. I think I've reached a good level of understanding by mixing science and spirituality. Science, in the study of the mind, and spirituality, that certain "something" that drives a person from the inside.

I can't stop thinking...

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by vaporub

trevor... i wasnt even talking to you...so chill and i was agreeing with crossfaded when he said "So truly, I have found my own God in ME." cuz it takes a self-realization to achieve that...... i guess this was the point i was getting at.



so you live your life questioning logic and thinking processes instead of making friends?

i make friends for life, cuz without friends life is just a place where you do things for other people, not knowing what its like to make your own decisions because your constantly being told what to do or where to go and what to buy. Without friends i know for a fact that i would not be where i am today...

so clarify oh great trevor of knowledge that nobody else can match, what do you mean by that sentence, and put it in big, hard to understand words so that my inferior mind cannot comprehend what your saying...

First off, I thought I had clicked on Southern California Discussion and they are used to the way I talk so I apologize.

As for using 'big words' and an 'intelligence' that no one else can match, I simply used the words created to explain the concepts that I am discussing. The fact that you don't understand them is not my fault and it doesn't detract from the meaning of the words. If I simplify them any further then it starts to break down the actual meaning the words possess.

Originally Posted by crossfaded

orvski,
Thank you for that post. It actually tells me that I am reaching somebody, and I am not talking crazy. I think part of me have always want to help people, and that part of me it trying to put down what I am experiencing as fully as possible. And it's really up to you to decide whether this makes sense to you and whether you want to take my advice to find your own meaning of life.

I'm trying to document all this on crossfaded.org. The first on top being my frist post, and it will stay there, as I will continue to add my experience. I can't believe it's been almost 24 hours now since I went on this journey. In the beginning I just wanted to expand my mind, but the results has been more than I could've ever imagined. I think I've reached a good level of understanding by mixing science and spirituality. Science, in the study of the mind, and spirituality, that certain "something" that drives a person from the inside.

I can't stop thinking...

What 'science' do you understand and what 'science' did you produce? My thread sought to explain the BASIC components of particle physics and quantum mechanics in an effort to explain dualism and it's inescapable net. This is important because it prevents us from gaining absolute truth's currently and explains many underlying aspects of our objective world and the subjective 'hidden' nature of the Implicate Order.

When a person eludes to understanding the meaning of life, I expect them to present a more solid argument.

You guys discovered the idea of subjective experiences in an objective world and decide you understand the meaning of life. If a person is going to delve into the philosophical world then one must learn to entertain other ideas and develop a thick skin for aggressive arguments.

In philosophy one seeks to answer an unanswerable question. One must do so by providing a solid, air-tight argument for their opponents to think about and discuss.

If a person cannot handle such attacks then they should not be discussing concepts as grand as the meaning of life.

From a spiritual standpoint one could argue that we are all part of one collective conscioussness experiencing itself subjectively through vehicles of matter/fermions (us) as propegators of memes in this vast universe. The 'Ego' can be thought of as the guise that projects this 'holographic' reality as you have eluded to in a less descriptive manner. One could argue that beneath the 'ego' lies the 'golden conscioussness' or link to the collective conscioussness (ego represent coal while the golden consciousness represents the diamond). One could seek to experience 'ego death' ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) to further understand the collective consciousness.

These are ideas that I too have contemplated upon just as you believe that you have. I understand that each reality is subjective and that we experience reality in individual states.

My point in discussing the 'Escape of Duality' (or lack thereof) is explaining to you that we can never physically or mentally escape duality as we exist within the Explicate Order (described in my thread) and cannot seek to understand the Implicate Order (underlying 'realities/dimensions') as we cannot currently directly observe it.

Since the explicate order is bound by tangibility and either/or, we cannot get past dualism. Without breaking down the barrier of dualism, it's IMPOSSIBLE to understand anything close to the meaning of life.

Godel's Theorum has proved that there is no possible way for us human's to ever achieve an understanding of absolute truths or even the meaning of life for that matter.

In his theorum, he used a set of natural numbers (1, 2, 3...) to prove that, "any consistent logical or mathematical 'formal system' rich enough to contain these natural numbers, would also contain a statement that could neither be proved nor disproven from within the system itself...". A computer language such as C+ or Java would be an example of a formal system.

Goldel proved that any unprovable or absolute truths would not be contained on any given formal system but could be proved within an expanded system containing additional axioms (self-evident truths that are accepted without proof) but would quickly produce more unprovable truths.

Basically, once you uncover an 'unknown truth', another 'unknown truth' will appear creating a vicious, never-ending cycle.

If you reread my thread on Escaping Dualism and try to grasp the very basic quantum mechanics (key components of particle physics) then you would understand that dualism is unescapable and the pursuit for absolute truths is the PERFECT PATH AND GOAL except you must realize that we will never find them within the Explicate Order.

I have taken many paths and learned many things on my journey to where I am, do not discount my experience and consider yours unique.

You are a nihilist if you believe that your subjective experience is seperate from the objective reality that is the BASIS for your subjective experiences.

Objectivity is the foundation for our existence as is evident with the basic foundation of particle physics and quantum mechanics.

In Conclusion:

I COMBINED PHYSICS WITH PHILOSOPHICAL IDEAS TO PRODUCE MY AS YOU PIT IT "ENLIGHTENED" STATE OF MIND. THAT IS MY "WORK" AS YOU HAVE ASKED ME FOR AND NOW YOU MAY ATTEMPT TO DECODE IT.

[crossfaded]

Trevor,
I really enjoy your writings. I feel it affects me in a certain way I can't really explain with words. There I go again with the unexplainable.

For a person with such understanding in logic and systems of proofs, I would really really like to know your views on love. It appears you have a loved one in your life, "Emelie". If you can explain to me logically why you love her, I'd like to know. If you can convince me "logically" that what you feel for her is love and how you got there...I will accept that my "enlightenment" is nothing but an illusion, and I am crazy...but at least I will have your logical explanation for people to follow on how to find love, true love and I will know I have not done this pointlessly.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by crossfaded

Trevor,
I really enjoy your writings. I feel it affects me in a certain way I can't really explain with words. There I go again with the unexplainable.

For a person with such understanding in logic and systems of proofs, I would really really like to know your views on love. It appears you have a loved one in your life, "Emelie". If you can explain to me logically why you love her, I'd like to know. If you can convince me "logically" that what you feel for her is love and how you got there...I will accept that my "enlightenment" is nothing but an illusion, and I am crazy...but at least I will have your logical explanation for people to follow on how to find love, true love and I will know I have not done this pointlessly.

If one believes that the feeling of 'love' is merely the result of chemical reactions occuring in the brain, then one could logically explain the 'feeling' of love. When a person becomes 'infatuated' with someone, a chemical response in their brain triggers the release of dopamine into the brain. The brain regards this as a 'reward-system' and continues to achieve to recreate this stimulating experience. This means the brain will exhibit signs of 'love' as a chemical addiction to the release of dopamine. After a period of use the neural transmitters become engaged in a 'laisez-faire' transist system where the normally difficult chemical transmitters containing dopamine are more easily accessed. This is a result of consistent dopamine release in response to 'feeling in love'. The brain will condition itself to constantly stimulate it's loving relationship until it's dopamine release is no longer stimulating.

This is when people 'lose the magic' or 'fall out of love'.

There are some articles out there discussing this in more detail.

One could argue that the love I experience between my girlfriend and I is my consciouss interpretation of the chemical addiction being experienced within the cognative region of my brain.

Remember, language is an emergent property of the brain as proven by John Searle in the "Chinese Room" experiment so it's not hard to believe that consciousness could also an emergent property as well.

Anyways, I am stoned as fuck right now.

Was that a logical approach?

Also, you are STILL missing the main points of my posts that I direct towards you, my friend.

I am not trying to be rude to you, only get you to realize that you don't really know shit yet.

"The more I discover, the less I know."

Keep that in mind.

[Wafflez]

Well dude your obviously able to quote a lot of theoretical concepts and that's awesome. However, there is one concept you may want to do some studying on and that's the concept of humility. Just an idea.

[Trevor]

Claiming to grasp something as COMPLEX and INFINITE as the meaning of life ESCAPES HUMILITY.

Does that not make sense? Is that part escaping you guys?

[rAvInPsYcHoNaUt]

Speaking from many past experiences of tripping, this is just the beginning phase of entering into a psychonaut's first level of understanding of the cognitive, mental, and spiritual self.

The first thing you have to realize is, if you choose to expand your mind, you have to embrace the fact that it is an open door of unimaginable and many times uncomprehensible idealogies and thoughts...influenced perceptions of the psychedelic mind.

Keep on tripping my friend, and let us know of your reports, we'd love to help expand the collective consciousness.

[orvski]

Trevor, telling him that he doesnt know shit isnt gonna magically make him understand your view and that his view is false.

You said it:
"The more I discover, the less I know"

It would seem that he hasnt "discovered" the idea yet for himself in order to get him to realize "ah, so thats what he meant..I understand now".

However, giving him all this information will certainly plant some ideas in his head that he might connect with later on.

I forgot what I was gonna say, im pretty high right now as well hehe.
I think I was trying to keep the peace? Anyway, umnm..alright i forgot

[crossfaded]

Trevor,
I was just beginning to enjoy our discussion on this matter until:

"Anyways, I am stoned as fuck right now."

I too like to use weed to help me expand my mind and to have insight sessions. But I'm rather disappointed in your choice of thoughts during your use this time. But in a way, I am actually glad you smoked weed and typed out your thoughts. To me I just feel a lot of hostility, anger, and impatience. You want people to understand you, yet you berate them and distance them when you feel like your point is not getting through, as if you feel that will get through to them.

I am not arguing the fact that I don't know "shit", but I have realized I know more shit now than yesterday, and my sole purpose for writing and sharing my experience is for people to read them and analyse them as "logically" or "spiritually", whichever way they choose to do it.

And if I can find one person to understand me, and able to reach the level of clarity I feel, I feel my immediate goal has been achieved. Isn't it what you want in the first place? For people to really understand you so you don't have to think they are dumbasses all the time?

By the way, I read your scientific explination of love. I've read that somewhere before. It is not a satisfactory answer for me because I believe you are just regugitating other people's explanations, with little or no thoughts or insights from yourself. If your loved one is happy with those answers, then by all means you are in a right place for yourself.

[Trevor]

I wasn't trying to get him to believe my viewpoint, just that he has more to learn just as I do.

Here is some of my spiritual, non-scientific shit that you guys passed over.

From a spiritual standpoint one could argue that we are all part of one collective conscioussness experiencing itself subjectively through vehicles of matter/fermions (us) as propegators of memes in this vast universe. The 'Ego' can be thought of as the guise that projects this 'holographic' reality as you have eluded to in a less descriptive manner. One could argue that beneath the 'ego' lies the 'golden conscioussness' or link to the collective conscioussness (ego represent coal while the golden consciousness represents the diamond). One could seek to experience 'ego death' ([Only registered and activated users can see links. ]) to further understand the collective consciousness.

These are ideas that I too have contemplated upon just as you believe that you have. I understand that each reality is subjective and that we experience reality in individual states.

I am not all logic. I just use logic as the basis for deriving all things other.

[orvski]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Claiming to grasp something as COMPLEX and INFINITE as the meaning of life ESCAPES HUMILITY.

Does that not make sense? Is that part escaping you guys?

Well see, roads is just trying to say that he has grasped HIS meaning of life, not yours or mines or anyone else. There is no point in trying to get him to understand your view of it whether you bomb him with all these quotes and studies because he just doesnt see it that way..YET. There is the journey that takes you from understanding an idea which leads to another understanding which causes a change in perception.

Trevor, if you want to help roads (if thats what youre trying to do), it would be better if you explain to him your experience on how you got from point A to point B. You learn more from the journey, not from the conclusion.

But then again, you can disregard my suggestions cuz you have the right to.

-- Oh and I didnt pass over that spiritual "shit" you wrote. Matter of fact I agree with the things you have pointed out.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by crossfaded

Trevor,
I was just beginning to enjoy our discussion on this matter until:

"Anyways, I am stoned as fuck right now."

I too like to use weed to help me expand my mind and to have insight sessions. But I'm rather disappointed in your choice of thoughts during your use this time. But in a way, I am actually glad you smoked weed and typed out your thoughts. To me I just feel a lot of hostility, anger, and impatience. You want people to understand you, yet you berate them and distance them when you feel like your point is not getting through, as if you feel that will get through to them.

I am not arguing the fact that I don't know "shit", but I have realized I know more shit now than yesterday, and my sole purpose for writing and sharing my experience is for people to read them and analyse them as "logically" or "spiritually", whichever way they choose to do it.

And if I can find one person to understand me, and able to reach the level of clarity I feel, I feel my immediate goal has been achieved. Isn't it what you want in the first place? For people to really understand you so you don't have to think they are dumbasses all the time?

By the way, I read your scientific explination of love. I've read that somewhere before. It is not a satisfactory answer for me because I believe you are just regugitating other people's explanations, with little or no thoughts or insights from yourself. If your loved one is happy with those answers, then by all means you are in a right place for yourself.

First off, I used to be a strict reductive materialist (I had the notion that everything in the universe, especially our experiences were the result of chemical, biological and physical reactions), so my views on chemical addiction in the brain are not simply regurgetated information. I have explored MANY areas of the brain and body in relation to reductive materialism. I am not some asshole finding random articles and typing them to you, give me more credit.

I had actually typed that "one COULD explain love, logically..." meaning that it could be done but it isn't necessarily my interpretation.

I also dicussed Emergent Materialism and emergent properties such as language and possibly consciousness so it's not like I am regurgetating information at will. It's all being connected in my brain.

If the actual process that occurs in nature is one regarding chemical processess and addiction, then should I make something 'more original' up? I wrote at the end of my statement that there are ARTICLES available discussing what I had wrote. I gave you an answer from my brain.


You asked for a logical explanation of love and I gave you one. I even said at the end that you find an article discussing this in better detail. I simply wrote down what I understand regarding the chemical process of love.

I discuss the physics of our world and you claim that I am 'regurgatating' facts and concepts when in reality, I grasp the basic physical mechanics of our universe and I am explaining things to you in my own words.

I am fully capable of understanding ideas and concepts and relating them to you. I am not sitting here reading random information in an attempt to 'refute' what you are saying.

I too like to use weed to help me expand my mind and to have insight sessions. But I'm rather disappointed in your choice of thoughts during your use this time.

I don't use herb to help expand my mind, I use it to give my mind a break becuse it's constantly moving (as I am sure yours is).

Also, how are you going to claim the meaning of life after an introductory polydrug exeperience and then tell me you are 'dissapointed' in me for my choice of words?

I have attempted to explain to you the idea of dualism and how we cannot escape it and I have discussed the sub-atomic world that has ingrained this mentality into our way of life as it is unescapable even on the particle level.

What have I discussed that you don't understand because you feel you have a solid grasp onwhat I am talking about yet you dont ever discuss any details.

Refute my points or embrace them openly, either way acknowledge what I have written as I have your writings.

Here is the thing:

I read your report and immediately thought, "What the Bleep Do we Know." I hate that movie. It creates the WRONG idea in people's heads by oversimplyfing and twisting facts. I have been in the 'destroy that movie's credit' mode for a while now.

Do you understand what a Fermion and Boson is? Do you understand what I mean when I discuss the Implicate and Explicate Order? Do you understand how they affect quantum gravity and their role in superstring theory? I am worried that you watched "What The Bleep Do You Know?" which is a terrible movie and I am worried that your beliefs are stemming from this.

This movie is AWFUL.

The universe isn't as simple as, "I ate some mushroooms for the second time and now I am enlightened." It's a journey and my duty is not to befriend you on your way but to give you my perspective (just as yours is to give me your perspective). We are two subjective beings who require other subjective views to get a better perspective. However, it's best when empricial evidence and objective facts are introduced to give the person a better understanding of your subjective perspective.

GIVE ME MORE CREDIT THAN JUST SOME IDIOT THAT REGURGETATES INFORMATION BACK TO YOU. I UNDERSTAND CONCEPTS AND I AM DISCUSSING MULTIPLE CONCEPTS ON MULTIPLE LEVELS, SO PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND MY VIEWPOINTS BEFORE YOU ACCUSE ME OF THINGS. I HAVE READ YOUR TRIP REPORT AND THERE ISN'T MUCH TANGIBLE INFORMATION TO REALLY DISCUSS. IT'S ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE AND LITTLE PROJECTIVE THOUGHT IS PRESENT.

I don't understand how a person can elude to grasping the MEANING OF LIFE, dodge all of my QUESTIONS and POINTS over and over and continue to attack the way I discuss things and still assume they are in the right frame of mind to be telling people how to discuss properly.

My desire is not for anyone to understand me because the information that I possess is merely college-level knowledge that I picked up from reading some books in the library. I dont claim to have any profound insights into the world. My desire to is to correct people who do not have the grasp they thought they had and provide them with a better picture than they have. I get corrected all the time by people more knowledgeable then I.

It's never the best picture but it's always a better one.

Crossfaded,

If you truly feel as if you have combined science and spirituality, please explain to me your scientific and spiritual facts. Until then, don't claim the meaning of life and try to act like I don't know anything.

Stop discounting my experiences so much. That's what nihilist do, they consider their experience unique from the rest and that we live in a world of subjectivity.

Can you support that?

This is typed freestyle and I am getting read for work so I apologize if it isnt eloquent or well-thought out. This entire weekend I have been rushed to make posts but I can put more time into them when I get some breaks at work.

Crossfaded, I want to talk with you but my tone isnt going to be a happy, feel-good tone. Thats just how I am, so I apologize. Just get a thickk skin and lets keep talking.